Were Ernie Knoll's dreams made up?
Back in February, I wrote about a website called 4 His People, where a church elder by the name of Ernie Knoll posted a number of prophetic dreams he’d been having.
A few days ago, the website was taken down, because the group that had been set up to manage the ministry around the dreams discovered that Ernie Knoll had made up a couple of key facts. Those fabrications cast a serious doubt on his ministry and on the prophetic value of his messages, so he and his wife were suspended from the ministry. The website was updated with the following message (click through to see it large):
What a shame! I thought the dreams were true and Knoll was honest about their origin. I found them to strengthen my faith when I listened to them. Although there were times when I thought the testimonies were drawn out, such as when Knoll talked about being given various robes and gifts for spreading the message, I took that stuff in context and moved on, focusing on the parts that tied directly into Bible prophecy.
Who knows, perhaps there is still some truth to the dreams. It’s possible the ones Knoll had at the beginning were true, and then he fudged some later ones because there was pressure on him to produce more of them. Maybe the ministry board jumped the gun when they closed down the website, but I can see why they’d rather err on the side of caution. Still, I find the message posted on the site unsatisfactory, because it doesn’t tell the whole story. I think there’s more investigative work to be done so we can know exactly where things went off the straight and narrow path. As painful as it may be, Ernie Knoll should come clean about the whole thing, because he owes that much to the people who believed in the value of his dreams.
Either Ernie should defend himself against false accusations that could have been based on a misunderstanding, or give a public apology for deceiving people. He does owe those who supported him in his work that much. But no matter what he does, the LORD can see into his heart and knows where he really stands and what the condition of it is.
Jesus warned us (Matthew 24) that in the last days we would be faced with this exact situation of Satan’s deceptions. Ernie Knoll is not the last false prophet that will come on the scene of these last days. Instead of focusing on Ernie Knoll and the hows and whys of what he did, we need to pray for spiritual discernment that we are not deceived again. Let us stay with the Word and and keep close to the Holy Spirit to “guide us into all truth.”
Dear sisters and brothers,
so, the web site 4hispeople.com was given up….
All what we can find is very veiled. Everything what we can find, are injure
and evil open letters and statements for brother Ernie Knoll. Now In nothing I can see the spirit of my savior Jesus Christ.
“Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.” (Ephesians 5, 10-12)
What I miss under all these veilings and evil open letters to brother Knoll, is a personal statement from brother Knoll. I am not interested in opinions and statements from third persons or persons, they want to lead me to do thing or to do not things.
“ And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (John 10, 5)
Perhaps somebody can help me, because I would like to talk with brother Ernie Knoll.
But I have no number and no e mail adresse.
It is very important for me, perhaps for him too.
“Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” (Matthew 18, 15)
I am interested very much like somebody can invent dreams, who contain precisely my experiences of the last 1 ½ years.
Everything what brother Knoll described in the dreams, God has revealed to me by his holy spirit.
The last 1 ½ years were very hard for me, but Jesus Christ gave me his power to stand and to fight.
Today I know that light never has communion with the darkness. There is no half a truth.
“for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?”
(2. Corin. 6, 14)
Thank you for your help
God bless you
Your sister Sandra Weingarten
„Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.” (Gal. 6, 2)
Ernie sent an e-mail out to several people that he made up Candace in Nov 2007 and Great Commision Councel as well. He does not claim that he made up the dreams, but he claims that the dreams are not from God since he sees no way that God would give inspired dreams at a time when he was deliberately inventing Candace.
The following found in 4hispeople.org is copied from the e-mail that Ernie and Becky sent out
From: Ernie and Becky Knoll
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:30 AM
To: Ernie and Becky Knoll
Subject: Public confession
Dear One,
By now you may have heard or read that Candace was a hoax. I created “her” to try to deter some of the negative things that people were saying about the ministry and it went downhill from there. (Becky did not learn about it until a couple days ago.) The dreams were also not from God. I want to say I am truly sorry and want to ask for forgiveness. Becky wants to ask for your forgiveness as well that she was deceived. We have repented of our sins and pray that healing will come to you and all those we have affected. On a positive note, we are glad that the Creeping Compromise book has gone out to many people. …
In His mercy and gracious love…Ernie and Becky
P.S. We hope to get a public confession up on the 4 His People website very soon.
http://www.4hispeople.org/ernieknoll.htm
Wait,
“From: Ernie and Becky Knoll
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:30 AM
To: Ernie and Becky Knoll
Subject: Public confession”
From: Ernie and Becky Knoll To: Ernie and Becky Knoll ?????
a mail sent by ernie to ernie???
What is that??
Blind copy practice — typically you address an e-mail to yourself and blind copy the rest. So you know that the webmaster of 4hispeople.org was one of the people the received the e-mail. (we received a blind copy as did a few others we have heard from)
We are very saddened by the e-mail.
Pray for 4Hispeople ministry team and Becky and Ernie Knolls.
Pray for all that turned to God after reading the dreams — that they will not turn away from walking with God, but instead draw nearer – because this is just the beginning of the end.
From: Ernie and Becky Knoll [mailto:threeknolls@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:33 AM
To: omega@omegaprojectministries.org
Subject: Setting the record straight…
Importance: High
Hi Ethel:
Thank you so much for your prayers, forgiveness and encouragement. We are
glad you are doing well.
We just wanted to set the record straight. Ernie did not make up the dreams.
They were supernatural dreams from Satan. I witnessed this in several of his
dreams. Satan also inspired him to make up Candace and the Great Commission
Council because of comments made by individuals against the dreams. We were
both deceived because we did not have a love for all the truth. Ernie was
also struggling with a low self-esteem due to problems from his childhood.
Please know that he and I are making great strides toward true reformation.
We praise God, for His mercy endureth forever! We pray that each one of us
will meet in that better land very, very soon. In Christ’s amazing love and
ours…Becky and Ernie
Ethel, please pass this on to your email list. Thank you so much and may God
bless you abundantly!
If you are a Bible believing Seventh-day Adventist, and believe the writings of Ellen White are the “lesser light” that lead to the “greater light” and we’re told by Ellen White that Satan cannot read our thoughts, how is he going to give dreams to an individual? Please don’t respond with suppositions. If you don’t have a valid answer by the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White, keep quite. If you do have a valid answer by the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White, then speak up, but make sure you know what you are talking about. I’ve watched people guess and guess and guess and suppose and suppose and suppose, etc. throughout the years. I have yet to have anyone answer some of my questions that I’ve posed to them about certain things. I’m not a Seventh-day Adventist to wander around and get into a guessing game, or misapply Scripture or Ellen White’s writings. I’ve seen enough of this throughout my nearly 70 years of life.
If you want to take to task writings supposed to be true or false, then you should take to task the writings of Ellen White. There’s more to show that Ellen White is a false prophet than there is to show Ernie’s writings are false. Using the Old Testament test of a prophet, Ellen White definitely fails here. If you want my answer, I’ll e-mail it to you. My e-mail address is below. I’ll e-mail an answer to you on one condition, and that is that you do not let it destroy your confidence in Ellen White’s writings. I’ve seen rejection of her writings on websites of those who have either never accepted her as a “messenger” of the Lord, or by some who have once walked with us, and then found “picky” points to show she is wrong. Younger people are especially susceptible to find error with her writings because of their lack of experience in the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White. That’s not true of all younger people, because we have also found men and women of long-time experience in the Seventh-day Adventist Church rejecting what God has given to the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the gift of prophecy through the writings of Ellen White.
Feel free to e-mail me at gmart-dr@charter.net if you have any real understanding of what I’ve mentioned in the 1st paragraph above. I’m interested in what the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White say.
Let God be glorified in all that we do.
Gary
Gary,
Why would one have to be able to read a person’s thoughts in order to plant a thought in their mind? What proof do you have to support such an idea? Have you ever heard of hypnosis? Indeed, a person could plant a thought into a person’s mind through hypnosis without having to read that person’s thoughts. And what do you say about demonic possession? Do you think that when this happens that the thoughts that are expressed by the person who is possessed are solely their own?
Furthermore, you appear to be double-minded. In one place you give the impression that Ellen White failed the OT test of a prophet, but then you suggest that we should use her writings as a test for truth. If she failed the OT test of a prophet then we shouldn’t use her writings as a test of truth. For then she would have been a false prophet. But the truth is that she did not fail the test. Rather, you have failed: you have failed to grasp the nature of the prophetic gift.
By the way, it is not wise to give your email address out as you did.
Dear brothers and sisters,
I would like to remind each and every one of us once again that a message, dream, or vision is to be judged and weighed strictly against the Word of God, and the Word alone. For those of you who have read and studied the dreams of Ernie Knoll over these past months I ask you this, before this recent ‘announcement’ regarding the dreams, have you found the dreams to be strictly in line with the Word of God? I believe all of us who have been SINCERELY studying the dreams would say ‘yes’.
The dreams were very straightforward in giving a strong message for this time, a message of the shortness of time, a call to repentance, the need for a closer walk with Jesus, assurance, and of encouragement for God’s people. Again, weighing these messages against the Word, would the enemy of souls have anything to gain by spreading such a message to so many thousands of people? The devil is cunning and wise and he would not invest such effort to attempt to give to God’s people a message whose result is repentance, hope, and sanctification rather than deception or creeping compromise in the lives of the readers. Such a message would rather undo the very things he has been trying with such a strong effort to accomplish, and we know that satan has more intelligence than that.
Let us also remember that the Word and the Spirit of Prophecy tell us that God works, and continues to work, through erring men and women who are not perfect and who make mistakes in the process of this work, whether they be big or small. Yet making those mistakes does not, and has not prevented God from continuing to reach souls through these very vessels.
I believe that is the same in the work of Ernie and the work he was charged to do. Though he may have fabricated several testimonies to give the dreams more credibility, I believe God had been wanting to work through him to get these messages out. The fact that he had began to stray off the direct path God had put him on and decided to help people believe in the genuineness of the dreams through his own strength, rather than allowing the Almighty to do so through His divine power and His divine agencies, may perhaps be the reason why in the past year and a half the dreams were becoming less and less frequent.
Provided that the first letter of confession by Ernie Knoll is genuine, let us see once again that Ernie confessed ONLY to the testimony of Candace and the Great Commission Council being false and fabricated by himself. There is no mention of the dreams until the second letter which is right above this post. I suspect that the implications and consequences of the mistake on Ernie’s part regarding the testimonies had such an immense impact on him spiritually that he and his wife might have been very quick to denounce the dreams altogether as of a Satanic origin. This is my own personal suspicion of course, but it’s something that I see as being very logical and possible for someone in Ernie and Becky’s shoes.
There is one more thing I must add. For those of you who have been paying close attention to current events, to these final prophecies fulfilling in the world around us, and who have been awake as the true watchmen on the walls of Zion, you may know just how very little time we have before the final crisis. The things we will see in the next several months will shake the world and will mark the beginning of the final hour before Christ’s return. Seeing how close we are to the crisis, it may be possible that the messages given by God through Ernie had run their alloted time that God had intended for them. He may have allowed this turn of events to take place because these messages had now run their course, and all those who have read and heard them during this time have either accepted the counsel given therein or rejected it, thus fulfilling the purpose of this direct and heart-cutting counsel that was given for this short period of time: to begin to shake the sieve and to call and prepare God’s true workers for the work that must be done in the crisis to come.
These are the thoughts that came to me one night recently after praying and contemplating the situation with the 4HisPeople Ministry. However, I also am an erring human being who is but in the school of Christ, so please do not take what I said as gospel truth nor reject it straightway, but rather pray with a humble and open heart and let the Holy Spirit show you and convict you within your own being. Again, let us prove and test all things against the word of God.
Your brother in Christ,
- Pete Warda
RememberThe4th.com
Gary,
After reading my reply to you I realize that I was harsh and somewhat disrespectful. I could have made my point in a more loving way.
My apologies to you.
Gary,
You asked to show you from the Word or writings of EGW if you are wrong. Here’s is one of the most potent, stirring, and direct statements from Ellen White regarding what you had mentioned.
“Satan often finds a powerful agency for evil in the power which one human mind is capable of exerting on another human mind. This influence is so seductive that the person who is being molded by it is often unconscious of its power. God has bidden me speak warning against this evil, that His servants may not come under the deceptive power of Satan. The enemy is a master worker, and if God’s people are not constantly led by the Spirit of God, they will be snared and taken. For thousands of years Satan has been experimenting upon the properties of the human mind, and he has learned to know it well. By his subtle workings in these last days, he is linking the human mind with his own, imbuing it with his thoughts; and he is doing this work in so deceptive a manner that those who accept his guidance know not that they are being led by him at his will.” (Our High Calling p.110)
Gary, please do not be ignorant of the great dangers of your view in which you say Satan cannot implant thoughts in one’s mind. This unbiblical view will only result in the lowering of your spiritual defenses and will open up the way for satan to do a great work on you, as EGW explains in the paragraph above. For in so doing, a revelation or light which you may believe as divine and given by the Holy Spirit may actually be of another source, and designed to deceive you and lead you off the straight and narrow.
Also, why have you come on here with an attempt to plant doubt in the minds of the readers regarding Ellen White? The method you used in being double-minded regarding the inspiration of Ellen White, stating that she was a prophet, yet wanting to give out false information in order to plant doubt in the reader’s mind, is the exact method that Jesuits have been using for many years to try to destroy a believer’s confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy. Though I do not know your motivation for coming here, I ask you not to post such subtle, and yet obvious errors on here, for clearly they are not God-given.
- Pete Warda
RememberThe4th.com
Hi Christopher,
No problem. You’re forgiven. Forgiveness is one thing I must do as a Christian. It is the characteristic by God which anyone anywhere receives from Him, and in order to be saved, forgiveness is a must. Even Christ forgave those who put Him on the cross. I gladly forgive. There were times in the past when I wouldn’t do it, but now it’s a habit for me whenever God brings to my mind that I should. The parable of the unforgiving man by Jesus tells a lot about how we are to handle anything that comes our way in which we have been mistreated in anyway. I really never took what you said though to be anything other than a discussion point.
I was preparing a response in the 1st paragraph about Satan giving dreams. Then out-of-body experiences (OBE) came to my mind. I don’t know enough about them to say that they are from Satan with visual, audio, and a connected story. That lends more to dreams given by Satan. One research says “Researchers have approached the question of the timing of OBEs by asking people who claim to have had OBEs to describe when they happened. In one of these, over 85 percent of those surveyed said they had had OBEs while they were resting, sleeping or dreaming.” The website for that is http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html. That quote is down a little ways under the title of “WHEN DO OBES HAPPEN?” I’ll need to study this more before I can understand this intelligently. If we can show that these can be or are from Satan based upon, for one thing, content, then this will verify the statement by Ellen White that there or dreams from Satan.
I didn’t necessarily believe that her statements about Satan giving dreams were false statements, but thinking that Satan cannot read our minds, I questioned his ability, his capacity to give a person a connected visual, audible dream in the quiet of the night. However that study above indicates that these OBE’s often occur in the nighttime when people are asleep and dreaming.
When I have fallen asleep either watching tv, listening to the radio, or in a room with other people talking, sometimes I can follow some of what I’m hearing if I’m only partially asleep. But when I’m asleep in the quiet of the night (or day, if that’s the case) there is no other influence on my mind other than those experiences of the day and my imagination to fuel the dream.
We do know Satan, and also very likely one of his angels, have appeared to humans as angel beings during the waking hours of humans.
There is a statement by Ellen White where she made a prophecy that, to my understanding, could not have been fulfilled, and is, to the best of my understanding, not able to be fulfilled, because it depends upon the continuous life of some living in her time in the mid 1800, clear through to the 2nd coming of Jesus “without seeing death”. She says “I was shown…”. This is not an opinion of hers, but something “the angel” told her. You can read that statement in volume 2 Spiritual Gifts, page 208, paragraph 2. I believe it is in the Old Testament where talks about a prophecy that does not come to pass, that the person giving the prophecy is a false prophet. This appears to be the character of this prophecy. That’s enough reason for me to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church, but I have not, nor am I interested in doing that. While I may not understand some things I read, the overwhelming evidence is, to me, that Ellen White was a messenger of God for this end-time. Many others have left the church over this statement and other statements that appear to be false statements, without seeing the whole picture.
Thanks for the tip on the e-mail posting. This is not my regular-everyday e-mail. This one I gave in my 1st comment above is a new e-mail I made up so that I could segregate out certain of my e-mails purposely and keep them all connected in one e-mail account.
God bless.
Gary
Pete,
Thanks for you response. I haven’t really studied into some things relating to Satan and dreams, so I’m not as familiar as others are who have come to a clearer knowledge on this subject.
If you’ll read my response to Christopher regarding this subject, it is a short response to what I was finding that I hadn’t thought of before as coming from Satan, but rather more likely coming from a drugs induced mind, usually in the hospital, but not localized only to the hospital environment. Realizing that there are only 2 sources within this world, one is Satan and the other the God of Heaven, then that may put the drugs related Out of Body Experience (OBE) in one camp or the other, depending upon whether the person is a Christian getting God’s protection, or one who is not a Christian not getting that same “Christian” protection. There may be other factors also affecting this that would not be visible to our minds’ eye.
As far as what I said about Ellen White being a false prophet based upon the Old Testament criteria, I was hesitant to say anything more than what I said in my first forum entry. That’s why I gave my e-mail so anyone who wanted an answer could e-mail me directly, so I wouldn’t have to post that information on this forum.
You can go to the various website of those who have left the church over statements she has made as being false. I have only found one statement of hers, and that has never given me enough reason to walk out of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, otherwise I’d done that already. We are to go by the “weight of evidence”. I am aware of that. Just because I don’t understand something is insufficient reason to change my thinking. I surely don’t want anyone who does not understand some things to doubt what God has made abundantly clear about His message for this time, and the things relating to it, or His messenger(s). Again, we must determine truth based “on the weight of evidence”, not opinions of anyone, or any other reason.
In Steps to Christ, page 105, Ellen White tells us there will always be room to doubt. “God never asks us to believe, without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. His existence, His character, the truthfulness of His word, are all established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant. Yet God has never removed the possibility of doubt. Our faith must rest upon evidence, not demonstration. Those who wish to doubt will have opportunity; while those who really desire to know the truth will find plenty of evidence on which to rest their faith.” “Plenty of evidence” is where I choose to lay my case before the God of Heaven.
Gary
Pete,
I had meant to mention the following but I left it out of my previous e-mail.
I appreciate your stance in regard to the dreams of Ernie Knoll. I just wish others had that insight that you have. We need to see things in their wider scope, not just with a tunnel vision viewpoint. We need to remember Jones and Waggoner and the 1888 message. Many of the messengers that God has sent to His people have been defective people who fell into, or openly and willingly put themselves into sinful behavior. Was the message that God gave them untrue because they themselves diverged from His path for a moment in time? Jonah, Balaam, David, and I’m sure you can name others who did just that. Some of them never returned to God.
We are told in the Scriptures and very much so in the writings of Ellen White to PAY ATTENTION TO THE MESSAGE. Otherwise, which direction would we go if we followed the messenger when they stray from God’s appointed pathway? We have seen that in this church from time to time when an individual gets a following, and then leads his followers out and away from God’s people.
In the Protestant Reformation that started with Martin Luther and which has carried on down to our time, we see that every movement that has come has had to start with a new group of people because the leaders of the previous church refused to reform with the new truth. And what do we have today? Various churches throughout Christendom with only partial truths. The last most recent of those that we recognize is the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Let’s hope she changes rather than rejects the truths that she knows she needs to reform on.
I have hope that with the centering of Jesus Christ in the messages that are now in progress for the past several years from some of the pulpits and evangelistic series we see on the television, that there will be the long-awaited for revival of spiritual interests and the reform that is so badly needed amongst our people. It is here now, and it will do it’s work. We are very close to the end of time. There are so many indicators both externally and internally that we see that we are really on the edges of eternity. This world has but a short time remaining in its 6,000 years history, in it’s sinful condition while probations hours still linger for us all. God will see His people through this end time. His promises are sure.
Gary
” I would call especial attention to the remarkable dreams given in this little work, all with harmony and distinctness illustrating the same things. The multitude of dreams arise from the common things of life, with which the Spirit of God has nothing to do. There are also false dreams, as well as false visions, which are inspired by the spirit of Satan. But dreams from the Lord are classed in the word of God with visions and are as truly the fruits of the spirit of prophecy as visions. Such dreams, taking into the account the persons who have them
570
and the circumstances under which they are given, contain their own proofs of their genuineness. “{1T 569.2}
Gary,
Regarding dreams and OBEs:
The quote which Ruth has just posted basically reflects my personal conviction regarding dreams. I believe that there can be dreams which are influenced and given by God. I also believe that some can be of a Satanic origin or can be used by Satan to try to influence our minds or even attempt to possess us during them, something that I have experienced first hand. But I also believe that most dreams are simply the fabrications of our own minds based on our daily experiences and that which we focus our minds on the most during our daily lives.
Here’s something that may shine some more light on this topic from a scientific point of view, and which you can look up further during your free time: The actual reasons for human beings having dreams is a substance called Dimethyltryptamine, or DMT, which is released into the brain by our Pineal gland when our brains go into heavy REM stages, such as when we sleep or during a medically induced coma. Although this is a substance which is naturally produced and released in our brains every night, it is actually classified as the most potent psychedelic known to man. Basically, as we sleep the pineal gland releases DMT into our brains causing us to literally hallucinate while we sleep. Normally we call the hallucinations ‘dreams’, but each one of our day-to-day dreams is an actual psychedelic trip that we go through each night. Unbelievable, I know.
Now in the 1990s a doctor by the name of Rick Strassman did extensive research on DMT at the University of New Mexico. Given the results from human test subjects, he concluded that the massive releases of DMT into the brain prior to death or near death was the cause of OBEs. Several of his test subjects reported OBE-like audio and visual hallucinations, while others also reported contact with ‘other beings’, or found themselves in highly advanced technological environments where the subjects were ‘carried’, ‘probed’, ‘tested’, ‘manipulated’, ‘dismembered’, ‘taught’, ‘loved’ and even ‘raped’ by these ‘beings’. To me, this is pretty sufficient explanation for OBEs although we both know that Satan can further pervert such experiences to make people believe in life after death, immortality of the soul, etc. That is looking at dreams and OBEs from a scientific point of view. And yes, I was shocked too when I found all this out at first.
Many believers will agree that we are most vulnerable to the working of Satan while we sleep. This is why the smartest thing for us to do is to ask God in prayer to remove any and all dreams from our minds while we sleep, lest they be given by Him and by Him alone, for Satan will use any entry way into our minds that he can, especially dreams.
————————
Regarding Ellen White:
I apologize if I came on too harshly with what I said regarding your post. I only did so because there are many out on the internet, Jesuit and non-Jesuit, whose only purpose is to go any and all Adventist pages in an attempt to disprove the genuineness of the Spirit of Prophecy, and I seem to encounter them pretty often.
Yes, I have wondered myself about the quote in which EGW stated that some living in her day would live to see Christ come without seeing death. Provided that this particular prophecy is speaking specifically of the remnant I have come to believe that this is a conditional prophecy regarding the remnant of the end of time, just the same as we see a large number of conditional prophecies regarding the nation of Israel primarily in the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.
I’m sure you’ve encountered numerous statements in the Testimonies and other writings where EGW states that had the people of God not slumbered and slept and strayed off the work charged to them for so many years, the work would have been completed and the Savior would have already came to take us home. For example,
“Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.
It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Peter 3:12). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain.” Christ Object Lessons p. 69
That is my understanding of the statement you provided. It is intriguing however, that the last time she made this statement was around the year 1914, which is now featured in Prophets & Kings, released in 1917 I believe. Given the fact that the signs around us testify that we have but a few years left, and the final conflict is about to be underway, as well as the fact that some who were born or were very young at the time she made this statement are still alive, there is still room for this final statement to come to a literal fulfillment. After all, even though the previous statements may have been conditional to the generations of the remnant people living at those particular times, this final prophecy may meet its fulfillment when the condition will be met in which the church militant becomes the church triumphant. (I’m sorry if this paragraph makes very little sense or is a little too complex.)
Regardless of this however, I strongly believe that each one of these ‘apparent discrepancies’ has a clear and simple answer, some of which we perhaps will not know until the 1,000 years begins. As you said though, there’s always room to doubt and rationalize as an excuse to not believe, and there’s always even more room to have faith in the truth God has revealed to us. I am joyful that we are in strong agreement as to which we have decided to choose. :)
——————
Regarding Ernie Knoll’s dreams:
Gary, you brought some very valid and important points that I hope more will read and think about. I personally am very saddened at the fact that ALMOST ALL were so very quick to reject and denounce the dreams as that of Satan simply because someone who runs the website said so, especially in such a short time period of these past two weeks since the notice first came on 4hispeople.com…
Do we as a people truly have so little faith and so little discernment in spiritual areas that we will believe ‘word of mouth’ with such eagerness without looking at the message presented to us?!?!? As Gary pointed out, why are we so keen to focus on one error of a human being rather than the message itself?
I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO THINK ABOUT THIS:
1. Imagine for a moment that Ellen White is still alive today, and the EllenWhite.com website is up and operational just like it is right now, with all her writings, visions, etc. on it.
2. Now imagine that one day you go onto the EllenWhite.com website and you see that all her material and resources have been taken down and all you see on the front page is a message from the trustees of the EGW Estate explaining that Ellen White has been found to be a false prophet whose messages and visions were that of Satan and that she has confessed to fabricating one testimony of a brother and sister X which was on the main website for quite some time. All this with no direct word from Ellen White
3. From the amount of guilt and pressure from church officials in consequence of what she had done Ellen White concludes that her visions, dreams, and books must have been of a Satanic origin.
Now, what would YOU do in this situation? Would you reject all her writings and visions straightaway and believe that you yourself were also deceived simply because of what she did or because of what she concluded in point #3? Or would you carefully re-examine Ellen White’s dreams, visions, and writings and test them once again against the Word of God to see if they were truly of a Satanic origin or from God? Provided you have already read quite a bit of her work which helped you draw closer to God, would you denounce her inspiration as that of Satan just as quick as you did with Ernie Knoll’s dreams?
Why are we so quick to judge others and proclaim that God cannot have been working through them due to the fact that they have made an error and have sinned just like the rest of us? So many of us secretly cherish sins daily in our hearts or make no effort to have our hearts purified while we attempt to work for God or witness about Jesus to others, yet does the Holy Spirit cease to attempt to work through us and speak through us altogether in its entirety? Why are we so quick to judge a message by one mistake or error of the messenger rather than judging it by the Word of God?
The answer is simple: Most of us are spiritually dead. Because we have not been advancing daily in our walk with God, because we live a half-hearted Christian life, as a result we have lost our zeal, our desire to truly seek God-given light, and our spiritual discernment in situations like these. It is no wonder that the prophet wrote that most adventists will be lost,
“I would say that we are living in a most solemn time. In the last vision given me, I was shown the startling fact that but a small portion of those who now profess the truth will be sanctified by it and be saved. Many will get above the simplicity of the work. They will conform to the world, cherish idols, and become spiritually dead.” Testimonies Vol1 p.609
My heart pains at the sight of the Laodicean condition running rampant through our ranks today!
“The old standard bearers knew what it was to wrestle with God in prayer, and to enjoy the outpouring of His Spirit. But these are passing off from the stage of action; and who are coming up to fill their places? How is it with the rising generation? Are they converted to God? Are we awake to the work that is going on in the heavenly sanctuary, or are we waiting for some compelling power to come upon the church before we shall arouse? Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never come.
There are persons in the church who are not converted, and who will not unite in earnest, prevailing prayer. We must enter upon the work individually. We must pray more, and talk less. Iniquity abounds, and the people must be taught not to be satisfied with a form of godliness without the spirit and power. If we are intent upon searching our own hearts, putting away our sins, and correcting our evil tendencies, our souls will not be lifted up unto vanity; we shall be distrustful of ourselves, having an abiding sense that our sufficiency is of God.” Selected Messages Vol1 p. 122
If we are so quick lose faith in a situation like this what will happen during the little and great time of trouble? What will happen to your faith when the entire world is against you and everyone denounces you as a messenger and worker of the devil? When judicial courts and ruling men point you back to the time when you have sinned again and again while attempting to advance the work of God, will you be so quick to lose your faith, to recant and denounce the message you have believed to be true as that of Satan simply because you have erred like Ernie did? Or will your faith hold because your trust in the message you preached was solely based on the Word of God and the Word of God alone?
I believe it is due time for all of us to search our hearts and re-examine where we are in our walk with God. The final crisis will hit much sooner than most anticipate it to do so, and I pray that we may all have the love and peace of our precious Savior in our hearts when it does.
I hope this may give something to think and ponder about to whoever reads it.
May God sanctify you through His love and truth!
- Pete Warda
RememberThe4th.com
The Candace testimony being false cast a big shadow on the dreams.
“A Great Work” dated December 8 2007 in the 1st paragraph “I ask if he was the one that spoke to the lady named Candace (testimony on the Divine Interventions of the 4hispeople website).”
Ruth,
Thank you for your comment. I would like to give you that whole paragraph in regard to Candace that was in Ernie’s dream of December 8, 2007, entitled A Great Work. The paragraph will keep in context what is being talked about here. Here’s the quote. I’ve bolded and put in blue the sentences that apply to Candace. I don’t know if the color will come through.
In my dream, I am standing in a large green grassy field and am reminded of the dream “The Old Gray Gate” and how the grass was green and the air was fresh. Many others are busy working in the field but it is as if the work we are doing is not fruitful. Suddenly my heavenly name is called and an angel descends from the sky. As he lands, his wings fold and fold and fold again into his back. As he approaches, he smiles and I recognize his dimples. It is the Herald. He comes up to me and I tell him that I have missed him and that it has been a while. He says that they (the angels) have been busy with much preparation to be done. I ask if he was the one that spoke to the lady named Candace (testimony on Divine Interventions of the 4hispeople web site). He answers no but that many angels are preparing many individuals for the King’s return and that he has been sent to show me something very important
You present a valid case for what you have stated in your comment. It appears that this is not the angel that talked with Candace. Of course we now know that Candace was not a real person, so no angel, God’s or Satan’s, would have talked with her. The question that arose in my mind is why didn’t this angel, if he is a true angel of God, tell Ernie about his error and correct him right there? I can’t answer that question since no one from God has given me that answer any more that it has been given to anyone else. The usual way I get my information from God is through His written Word, the Bible, and the writings of Ellen White, the “lesser light” that leads us to the Bible, “the greater light”. We can guess about why, if this is a true angel of God, the angel didn’t correct Ernie right there, but we really don’t know the real answer.
I can understand your question about the validity of the dreams based upon this fictitious character Candace. Are they true, or are they also a fabrication of Ernie’s? This does put in question the rest of the dreams of Ernie? That’s why Ernie, at first, said the same thing, that if Candace was mentioned in a dream, and not corrected in the dream by the Herald, then the rest of the dreams must also be false. That was, I believe, the factor that called in question the dreams by many following the dreams.
I took this line of reasoning to task when people started saying that the rest of the dreams were false based on this one account of Ernie’s fabrication of Candace and the Great Commission Counsel. Balaam was a true prophet to begin with, but later turned bad. What he did prophecy that was true, still stood as truth. There are other Biblical examples of similar conditions that existed by a messenger, when for instance the messengers later left the message such as Jones and Wagner, but the messages still remained true. However, they didn’t fabricate the messages. William Miller confessed his error, and while he never accepted the Sabbath, Ellen White states that he will be saved. Was the 1844 movement a false movement? Should we as Seventh-day Adventists give up our beliefs because the common understanding of what the sanctuary is, was understood to be the earth, and not the Heavenly Sanctuary, as was shortly thereafter shown to a man after the Great Disappointment?
We have historical occurrences in the past that identify common threads in events that help us identify where the path is that God wants us on? Revelation 10:10, 11 tell us of a common understanding by Seventh-day Adventists that we should prophesy again. We understand this to be the subsequent event following the Great Disappointment, that we are still currently in.
Revelation 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
The point I am making is that even though the messenger may make errors of varying sorts doesn’t make the messages they bring false. The messages are still true.
If you will go to the following website you will see my comment to Chuck about this very issue you bring up. It lends insight that I have found out recently. http://great-controversy-movie.com/blog/?p=137#comment-3167
One more note. If I thought the dreams were false, I would have rejected them early on in early 2008 when I first became aware of them. However, I like a number of others around this globe of ours, found nothing fundamentally wrong in them that could be shown as error, in the light of the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White.
I cannot study for you. You cannot study for me. We can share information and that becomes helpful to us all, but in the end, you are responsible for yourself for the final decision you make regarding any message from a member of God’s remnant people. We are each individuals, and we stand before God as individuals.
Do all you can to understand His ways, and then do all you can to walk in His ways. He wants all His human creatures saved, but He will not force anyone to do His will. The realization that God is truly love, will cause the earnest seeker after truth to respond in love to that great love of God. He does everything in His power to warn, encourage, guide, strengthen, and anything else He can do to get us on the path of life, and to get us staying on the path of life. The decision to respond lies within our own will. Will we, or will we not turn to Him who is our very life?
God continue to be with you and bless you.
Gary
Gary,
That was a wonderful reply, both on here and on the website you gave us link to, praise God for this interesting insight.
I would also agree that the impression that Ernie had gotten at the end of 2007 concerning the creation of Candace must have been from Satan himself. I am now even more curious about the issue of Candace in the dream which Ruth quoted. Could it be possible that this particular impression Ernie received could also have influenced him to add additional, false ‘details’ to the dream “A Great Work”, the detail of Ernie asking the angel whether he had been the one talking to Candace? “A Great Work” dream, after all, was published barely a month after the testimony of Candace went public on the website.
Praise God, however, that we are now looking at the messages with a more earnest desire to find the truth, whatever it may be. In either case, we now know that Ernie was deceived in at least one area by the devices of satan. That in itself shows us how dangerous it is for us to let our guard down for just even one day, and how greatly the progress of the Work may be hindered if we do.
There are plenty of questions that we may not have the answer for until we shall be able to look back on this during the thousand years. Personally, it took me quite a while to fully accept the dreams as being genuine, and it will also take me a bit of time to come to a full conclusion regarding this situation. I pray that God will continue to shed more light on this issue as we pray and study and ask for His divine guidance.
There’s also something which hasn’t left my mind this entire time while pondering all this. In the last dream, given in November 2008, there is a very fascinating detail regarding the Second Coming which cannot be found anywhere in the Bible nor in the numerous visions, dreams, or writings of Ellen White. I was quite amazed when this dream was published because I had already seen this particular detail before. One night about 6 months previous to November ’08, God had given me an answer to a silent, but very intense prayer through a divine dream of which this detail was a part of. This greatly intrigued me yet brought a strong confirmation of the genuineness of the dreams at that time. And this particular experience has stuck out strongly throughout all this…
There are other issues which don’t seem to add up with everything that has transpired and things which contradict each other. My desire is to keep praying for more light in these areas. Let us all continue to allow God to purify our hearts and minds as we seek more light and a deeper connection with the Father through the Son. Time is short, our Savior’s return is imminent. I pray to see you all in the Kingdom.
God Bless.
- Pete
RememberThe4th.com
Pete,
I am still thinking about some of your comments since I don’t have some answers.
I can tell you that Candace came as a result of Ernie’s “strong impression” to do so. I think what he should have done was to have waited for another dream to ask the Herald or Jesus about his “strong impression”. We all can have strong impressions about something, sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. Satan took advantage of some sort of weakness Ernie had regarding following an impression. It’s better sometimes to wait a while and think something through when something comes to us that we are not sure of. God will make it plain in His time. I think Ernie will be much more careful the next time a “strong impression” comes his way in relation to something he might do that doesn’t sound just right.
I looked over the section in that last dream in which is the description of the 2nd coming of Jesus. I don’t know what detail you are talking about that was in Ernie’s dream that is not in the Scriptures or the writings of Ellen White. If you don’t want to share that with me (us) that’s OK.
It was late last night and my wife was reading it back to me after I’d just read it minutes earlier. She would comment on what she recalls Ellen White has said about the 2nd coming as she was reading the dream Ernie had of the description of the 2nd coming.
“Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, about half the size of a man’s hand. It is the cloud which surrounds the Saviour and which seems in the distance to be shrouded in darkness.” This is Ellen’s description of the 2nd coming when it is still a good way from the earth.
“We all turn to the sky and watch as the small black cloud has now grown to the size of a baseball.” This is Ernie’s description of the 2nd coming when it was still a good way from the earth.
The only thing I could think of is where he talks about the whole universe looking on as not being in Ellen Whites description of the 2nd coming.
Here Ernie tells about that scene. “The Herald says to look to the west. As I do I see in a way that I cannot describe. It is as if there is a window in the sky and the assembled universe is viewing this event. They also understand that this will happen only once. I see the eyes of all throughout the universe transfixed on the scene that is before us.”
Ellen White does say a similar thing about how the universe is watching us, but that is now.
“The inhabitants of unfallen worlds and of the heavenly universe are watching with an intense interest the conflict between good and evil. They rejoice as Satan’s subtleties, one after another, are discerned and met with “It is written,” as Christ met them in His conflict with the wily foe. Every victory gained is a gem in the crown of life. In the day of victory all the universe of heaven triumphs. The harps of the angels send forth the most precious music, accompanying the melody of the voice (Letter 5, 1900).” {6BC 1088.4}
The angels sing. We read this from the Great Controversy, page 640-641. I’m only copying part of that description that applies to what we have been talking about – what Ellen White saw, and what Ernie saw.
Ellen White says “With anthems of celestial melody the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng, attend Him on His way.”
“I hear him [The Herald] begin singing a single note and then this expanding multitude of angels join in.” is how Ernie describes the singing angels. He continues “The whole earth is filled with a sound that has not been heard since the first coming of Jesus when He was born from the womb of a virgin.”
The size of the angelic host.
Ellen White says “The firmament seems filled with radiant forms–”ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.” No human pen can portray the scene; no mortal mind is adequate to conceive its splendor.” Here is described the many angels of God, many of those who have taken care of you and me, and continue to do so, day after day, night after night, year after year.
From the dream of Ernie we read, “I now see that in the sky are billions upon billions of angels, each brighter than I ever thought possible.”
Comment:
Ellen White uses a word of numerical value that we are used to hearing in relation to the number of angels – thousands.
Ernie uses a word that we have been hearing more frequently in recent months in relation to how much the U.S. budget is, and how much is being spent on various projects – billions.
Whether one uses “thousands” or “billions”, bypassing millions, it is a very large number of angels that fill the sky, the firmament.
I know this doesn’t cover the entire subject of the varying details of the description of the 2nd coming of Christ, but it gives us some kind of an idea of the glory of that event when every living eye will see His coming, the righteous beholding it in wonderful anticipation for their saving, and the wicked in great horror as they realize this is much bigger than what they can control, knowing the righteous have been right and they have been wrong, and then calling for the rocks and mountains to fall on them and hide them from the Saviour who has pleaded with them during probations open hours, but without avail.
Today, probation’s hours are still open. Today is the time we can turn to Him and be saved. Today life is still open to us all. None of us HAVE TO BE LOST. All of us CAN BE SAVED. It all depends on the choices we make, day after day. Are we with the God of Heaven, or are we with the master deceiver? Jesus came to this earth to save all mankind. He lived a perfect life, died a perfect sacrifice, was raised a perfect Saviour, and now He’s our perfect High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary. What more can He do for us that He hasn’t already done?
May God help us all to know His ways, and then follow His ways. That’s the only way to truly live, now, and forever.
Gary
“Strong impression” AKA LIE?
Unfortunately the “Candace” lie was not isolated to just a few paragraphs. Ernie talked often in meetings about what Candace said and how Candace e-mailed people to give them instructions — it was not a one time event it was ongoing manipulation for all of 2008 and up to this point in 2009. And in today’s latest e-mail he expounds on how and why he made up the Great Comission Council.
Ruth,
If you had done such a heinous crime as Ernie did, would you want to be forgiven?
“Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.” Luke 23:34
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
It says, forgive us as we forgive. We are forgiven by God only as we forgive others.
Matthew 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Ruth, whether you believe in the dreams or not, please find it in your heart to be forgiving towards Ernie.
Hasn’t our Father in Heaven, the God of the Universe, found it in His great heart of love to setup a forgiveness program for this entire universe so that we can be forgiven by Him, and then reunited with Him, and the Heavenly hosts? Hasn’t He forgiven you and me and all those who come to Him asking for forgiveness?
1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
For over 30 years I was angry with anyone and everyone I wanted to be angry with. Talk about Satanic control! I know what that is. In mid-August of 2002, almost 7 years ago, God performed a miracle in my life. He freed me from Satan’s power that had been inside me for so long. I’m forever grateful to Him and for His power to free me from Satan.
Have I ever fallen since that time? Sure I have. Did I ever get angry after that like I did before? Yes. Did I ask for forgiveness from God? Of course. Is it my habit to continue as I did before God took Satan out of the inside of my life? Absolutely not. I know what it is like to be controlled as a slave of Satan. I know what the world is like. I have no desire ever to go back there again, like the vomit of dogs. “As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.” Proverbs 26:11.
I am forever indebted to the God of Heaven, and to my Precious Saviour, Jesus Christ. They are my life.
Forgiveness is the one thing that all who will pass into Heaven will have done. The very nature of God’s love is to forgive; otherwise He could have destroyed Satan from the start. But His very nature is one of forgiveness. The story of the prodigal son is a wonderful example of our Father’s wonderful love. How can we turn down such wonderful love?
I have prayed for you and continue to pray for you. You are a sister of mine I have only met recently. Don’t let Satan keep you in bondage. Jesus Christ is the only freeing Agent that will bring you the joy, the peace, the happiness that He created you to be. It’s yours for the asking. “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; … For every one that asketh receiveth “ Luke 11:9, 10. It’s just that simple, and it really does work. I know for my own self from personal experience.
I have written this for the sole purpose to help you. I have not intended to judge you wrongly. I have written this to you because I recognize some things in your writing that is similar to where my life was in the past, even though your life is different from mine as we are 2 different human beings. Move forward with Jesus. He is your life.
If I have written anything that has offended you in anyway, I hope you will find it in your heart to forgive me. I have intended this to be a help to you, definitely not in any way to hinder you, or to hurt you. Let Jesus continue to heal you. He surely can, and He surely will, but you must open the door of your heart to Him.
Take care and God continue to bless you.
Gary
Correction to my most recent post directed to Ruth
I made a mistake in my recent post to Ruth.
Ruth, and others who will read this message.
Down about half way into my post I said, “Hasn’t our Father in Heaven, the God of the Universe, found it in His great heart of love to setup a forgiveness program for this entire universe…”
That should have said, “Hasn’t our Father in Heaven, the God of the Universe, found it in His great heart of love to setup a forgiveness program for this entire world…””
It’s not the universe, but it’s the world, this earth of ours for which God has setup the plan of salvation for.
Thank you for your understanding
Gary
Ernie has been forgiven – no question!
Question:
What does one do with Ernie’s ministry – given a year and a half of what appears to be a partnership between lies and claims of having messages from God?
Where is the Bible evidence that such a thing could happen with God’s approval? (dreams for 18 months)
Ruth,
I appreciate your forthright frankness about what to do with the dreams because of what we have found out that is not right.
I can’t tell you what to do. That’s your decision and your decision alone. There’s enough reason to doubt their genuineness based upon the fictional characters Candace and the Great Commission Council, and then there’s the issue of a private dream and the immodest dress approval of a woman’s top covering. I didn’t find out about that until a week ago. I’ve just sent Ernie and Becky an e-mail inquiring about that dream. Immodesty is so common now days, that to find a woman who is modest in her dress is a rarity, even among those who attend the Seventh-day Adventist Church. However, there is probably more modesty in the church than on the streets of our cities. Men don’t do so well either at times, but they aren’t built with milk breasts to feed the newborn baby. That still doesn’t excuse immodesty by either man or woman who claims to be children of the living God.
Now, going back to the dreams for a moment, if it is clear to you that the dreams are not from God, and you have searched this out and prayed about it, and you keep coming up with the same answer, then it would make sense to me that you should go with that. You have done everything you can to do as God has asked you to do. Is the God of Heaven going to cast you out because you have done everything in your power to assess the dreams, and now can have no more confidence in the dreams because of the actions of the messenger that has caused you to lose confidence in the dreams also as genuine dreams from God? I’d sure hope not.
William Miller preached the message of the coming of Jesus based upon a false understanding of what the sanctuary is. Then there was the Great Disappointment after which a man was given a vision (?) that the sanctuary was the Heavenly Sanctuary, not the earth. Later the Sabbath was brought to the remaining group of believers. William Miller never accepted the Sabbath, yet Ellen White has said that this is going to be the final test when that other angel joins the 3rd angel of Revelation 14. She says that “angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump.” Early Writings, p. 258.
What I am saying is that sometimes we make a right decision, and sometimes we make a wrong decision. God doesn’t throw us out when we err. I know that sounds off, but in Steps to Christ Ellen White says something to the effect that we will not be judged because of one sin, but by the general tenor of our life. That’s not the correct words. I have been looking in Steps to Christ but cannot find that quote. But the general idea is correct as I remember it.
Continue with the convictions you have that you have studied and prayed about. You are doing the right thing for you.
Proverbs 4:25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.
26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.
I still consider you a sister even if we differ in this area regarding the dreams. I’m still examining as I go.
God bless you, and thank you again for your responses. We grow as we share and as we receive from one another.
Gary
Steps to Christ Chapter 7 The Test of Discipleship
“If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17.
A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or trace all the chain of circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. Christ said to Nicodemus, “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8. Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God. While the work of the Spirit is silent and imperceptible, its effects are manifest. If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are.
The character is revealed, not ( pg. 58) by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts.
It is true that there may be an outward correctness of deportment without the renewing power of Christ. The love of influence and the desire for the esteem of others may produce a well-ordered life. Self-respect may lead us to avoid the appearance of evil. A selfish heart may perform generous actions. By what means, then, shall we determine whose side we are on?
Who has the heart? With whom are our thoughts? Of whom do we love to converse? Who has our warmest affections and our best energies? If we are Christ’s, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him. All we have and are is consecrated to Him. We long to bear His image, breathe His spirit, do His will, and please Him in all things.
Those who become new creatures in Christ Jesus will bring forth the fruits of the Spirit, “love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.” Galatians 5:22, 23. They will no longer fashion themselves according to the former lusts, but by the faith of the Son of God they will follow in His steps, reflect His character, and purify themselves even as He is pure. The things they once hated they now love, and the things they once loved they hate. The proud and self-assertive become meek and lowly in heart. The vain and supercilious become serious and unobtrusive. The drunken become sober, and the profligate pure. The vain customs and fashions of the world are laid aside. Christians will seek not the “outward adorning,” but “the hidden man of
59
the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit.” 1 Peter 3:3, 4.
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Premise #1
Since Character is revealed by the tendency of habitual words and acts — then someone who habitually lies would fall under Jesus” statement below:
John :44″You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Premise #2
A Witness for God must be known for telling the truth:
Proverbs 14: 5 A trustworthy witness will not lie, But a false witness utters lies.
25 A truthful witness saves lives, But he who utters lies is treacherous.
ERGO/Therefore/leads me to the following conclusion
Someone who habitually lies is not from God
Isa 5:20Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
Correction –The verses quoted: John 8:44;
Well put Ruth. I have just finished reading all of the comments and have learned much from all of you. As for myself, I used to read the dreams until I realized that I had lost interest in reading the Bible and was more concerned with the dreams and their message. (I was also worried about reading the wrong version based on some advice in his dreams.) Without a final judgment on Earnie or the origins of his dreams I decided to put them aside since they were not leading me personally to a geniun relationship with Jesus at the time. I still feel that the Word of God should be the ultimate source of our convictions as SDA’s and as Christians.
Hey!
You need to read this mail from Ernie:
http://4hispeople.org/documents/ernie_knoll_ministry_update_8_5_2009.pdf
He say, the dreams are from God, etc, etc
You have to read ;)
God bless you
I read it when it first came out.
What do you think of it Galo? Many have condemned him because he held onto what they consider an ongoing lie until he was found out. Hmmm. Seems like I read something in the Bible about someone else who did something worse than that with not just 1 or 2 sins, but 5 or more, and one of them was killing a person to cover up his adultery. He wasn’t to quick on volunteering his sins around. In fact, h didn’t admit anything for quite a while until a prophet stood in front of him and told the king about a rich man who took a poor mans ewe (female sheep). Then the king got incensed over the injustice of the rich man in the story and condemned the rich man to die. Then the prophet said, “Thou art the man”.
God was pretty rough on this king. Of course he didn’t follow the kings advice that this man should die. Instead, the child of his adultery died. Seems God didn’t remove him from his office as king. Then his next son went on to do worse than his father. If He had of removed him from office, then maybe they’d had a better king than his son. I think He should have removed the king from office, and done it quickly, don’t you think? This kings influence went world wide at that time. I wonder what the other nations thought about what he did? Of course, the rest of the nations probably practiced lusting, coveting, adultery, murder, cover up, and who knows what else, so they probably didn’t think a thing about it. Except they probably didn’t expect the from one of Israel’s renown kings.
Then there was that fellow Achan. He didn’t have a really high profile in Israel. He didn’t voluntarily tell about his covetous act until he was caught. And then he and his family were stoned to death and they were burned along with their things. Seems kinda unjust of God to do such a thing to one who had just one sin. I wonder if it was because David was a king and Achan not a king that God spared David’s life, and let the Israelites stone Achan and his family to death.
I think if I had a choice, I’d rather have the judgment of God rather than the judgment of men. At least if God does it, it’s going to be a right judgment. I understand He doesn’t make mistakes, even if we don’t understand His actions. With men, well, we’ve seen enough injustice in this world by men. And those who claim to be Christians don’t always do well either. They just claim more.
What do you think Galo? Should Ernie be condemned or let go? Do you suppose his repentance is genuine? Do you think God is lenient on some and hard on others?
If we look at His pattern without understanding His character, we might miss something here. His justice and His mercy, mixed perfectly together.
God bless.
Gary
Correction to last sentence in 3rd paragraph above.
Except they probably didn’t expect that from one of Israel’s renown kings. Replace the with that.
—————–
The only thing I could think of is where he talks about the whole universe looking on as not being in Ellen Whites description of the 2nd coming.
Here Ernie tells about that scene. “The Herald says to look to the west. As I do I see in a way that I cannot describe. It is as if there is a window in the sky and the assembled universe is viewing this event. They also understand that this will happen only once. I see the eyes of all throughout the universe transfixed on the scene that is before us.”
——————
Gary, you are correct on this, and this was the scene which was presented to me, although my finite human mind is incapable of describing the scene and do justice to its beauty and glory at the same time.
Jenny, if you are unsure whether the statement regarding the KJV of the Bible in one of Ernie’s dreams was correct or not you should watch video #213 & #214 at http://www.rememberthe4th.com/video_totalonslaught.html
Hopefully it will explain for you why the KJV is the safest and most reliable Bible to use.
God Bless.
How can we decide about a prophet true or false:
1st we have to inspect the fruit and whether he/she is practicing righteousness of lawlessnes:
Matthew 7:15″Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16″You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17″So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18″A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19″Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20″So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21″Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22″Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23″And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Ernie was practicing lawlessness.
So many lies were told in the meetings I attended. Hind sight is 20/20 The last meeting I attended had a lot of “Candace says the angel says”
As we know now they were all lies. (It was Ernie says)
Gary, did you get your answer on the immodest attire for women dream? “Candace said” something about that too.
James 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”
Galatians 6: 7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
God forgives and so should we,
AND God says By their fruits you shall know them and don’t be decieved… and we should give heed to that also.
Correction on 1st point “Whether the prophet is practicing righteousness OR lawlessness”
Ruth,
I’m getting some information. As I get enough to let you know, I’ll do that. It’s just taking time because of my own personal family events have and continue for a while to take up my extra time. More than likely it may be another 2 or 3 weeks more, depending on my own schedule. Summer is a busier than usual time for me because I have the grounds of 2 large churches to look after in addition to my regular work at them, and then with personal things going on relating to the family that I mentioned above, sometimes things like this get squashed out of my time for a while. I still try to squeeze in some of it as I go. That’s what I’m doing briefly here.
Take care and God bless you.
Gary
Jenny
Thank you for your comments
Concerning the debates on the KJV only vs other version.
EGW, a true prophet, used several versions
Interesting article from the White Estate
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/versions.html
This is page 1 of the article
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Hope this helps.
In her writings of the Holy Scriptures Ellen White made use of the various English translations of the Holy Scriptures that were available in her day. She does not, however, comment directly on the relative merits of these versions, but it is clear from her practice that she recognized the desirability of making use of the best in all versions of the Bible. What she has written lays a broad foundation for an open-minded approach to the many renderings of the Sacred Text.
As a part of the great controversy vision of March 4, 1858, she was given a view of the preservation of the Bible, which she presented in the chapter, “Death Not Eternal Life in Misery” (Early Writings pages 218-222). This early statement is significant:
“Then I saw that God knew that Satan would try every art to destroy man; therefore He had caused His word to be written out, and had made His purposes in regard to the human race so plain that the weakest need not err. After having given His word to man, He had carefully preserved it from destruction by Satan or his angels, or by any of his agents or representatives. While other books might be destroyed, this was to be immortal. And near the close of time, when the delusions of Satan should increase, it was to be so multiplied that all who desired might have a copy, and, if they would, might arm themselves against the deceptions and lying wonders of Satan.
“I saw that God had especially guarded the Bible, yet when copies of it were few, learned men had in some instances changed the words, thinking that they were making it more plain, when in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, by causing it to lean to their established views, which were governed by tradition. But I saw that the Word of God, as a whole, is a perfect chain, one portion linking into and explaining another. True seekers for truth need not err; for not only is the Word of God plain and simple in declaring the way of life, but the Holy Spirit is given as a guide in understanding the way to life therein revealed.” EW 220, 221 (1SG 116, 117).
On Mrs. White’s attitude toward the English revision of the 1880′s, her son, W. C. White, reports:
“Before the revised version was published, there leaked out from the committee, statements regarding changes which they intended to make. Some of these I brought to Mother’s attention, and she gave me very surprising information regarding these Scriptures. This led me to believe that the revision, when it came to hand, would be a matter of great service to us.” W. C. White, DF 579 (1931); Ministry, April, 1947, p. 17.
It is significant that almost immediately after the appearance of the English Revised Version, Mrs. White made use of it in her books, as she did also of the American Standard Revision when it became available in 1901. It is also significant that four major statements from Mrs. White’s pen concerning the Bible and the Bible writers were penned during this decade of the appearance of the revised versions of the New and Old Testaments.
Gary,
Thanks for the answer – It will be interesting if the dream was regarding foundational garments.
Deuteronomy 13
1″If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’
3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4″You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
Thoughts:
False prophets can say things that may come true.
These things God may use to test us to see if we love Him with all our heart and soul.
Ruth,
Thank you for the information on the different versions of the Bible. Very insighful. You mentioned later something about a dream concerning immodest attire for women. It’s not the first time I read about it but I have no idea what that particular dream was and I haven’t been able to find other references online. I guess I’m mostly curious but I’m also trying to put some pieces of a particular puzzle together. Would you mind explaining what the immodest attire for women was?
Jenny, read this: http://revealingtruths.com/revealingTruths.php?books&04&creepc&Creeping%20Compromise
It’s a chapter from the book Creeping Compromise, it puts the issues of proper attire for Christian men & women in a very clear light using both the Bible and what Ellen White saw in vision regarding the issue. God Bless!
Jenny,
Gary mentioned a private dream by Ernie about immodest dress for women on his August 7th post. Gary is trying to get more information about it. It is still sketchy. In the “Candace said” catagory– one was regarding women not wearing undergarments.
Ruth,
My family and I attended a meeting where Ernie spoke, and Candace was mentioned as if she was some sort of liaison for heaven. It seemed a lot of decisions were made by her and many instructions were given through her. I found this odd and unscriptual.
Then the undergarment topic surfaced. The angel told Candace that God loves the form of the woman, and that He wanted it to be shown. Bras were chains and they needed to be removed. Tight see through tops were to be worn, and the angel told Candace that the tighter the top the more faith you have. The women were instructed to wear this around non-Adventist, because a stranger would have no reason to stop you and open conversation; church members would more than likely stare. This was presented to us all as the word of God by the angel through Candace.
Lies, lies, and more lies. I believe that Satan was making his move to destroy souls. The Lord prevented honest, sincere, truth believing, praying people from being further deceived. Ernie lied and it was evident that Candace (the lying spirit) had taken over him. The new van they traveled in was secured by testimony from Candace via email to the Toyota dealership. He had become accustomed to securing favor, items and whatever else he could get through this artful deception. The sky was the limit. He also asked us to send out contributions directly to him; not the ministry.
Then, Ernie was exposed–again. Linda Kirk’s loving testimony was the first sound of the trumpet and was vital, but was discredited by another hoax–the Great Commission Council. We are instructed by the word of God to test the spirits (1John 4:1), not dodge them. Truth can stand up to any investigation, but Ernie failed the exam because he was not telling the truth. His life was unsanctified and yet he was honored of God and shown the wonders of heaven? God showed His servant about this type of setup.
Ellen Whites states, “If there were no other evidence of the real character of spiritualism, it should be enough for the Christian that the spirits make no difference between righteousness and sin, between the noblest and purest of the apostles of Christ and the most corrupt of the servants of Satan. By representing the basest of men as in heaven, and highly exalted there, Satan says to the world: “No matter how wicked you are; no matter whether you believe or disbelieve God and the Bible. Live as you please; heaven is your home.” GC 556.
Hence, I believe the dreams were fabricated. Ernie made a statement at the meeting that caused me to suspect this, he said “People are always trying to find fault with the dreams. . .like the scene with the saints all lined up heading towards the guilotine singing all to Jesus I surrender, that’s Rev 20:4!” It’s as if he selected a scripture from the Word and then wrote a scence concerning what is said in the verse.
The Lord allowed all these events to occur, and will use them for our good. God forgives and so does His sanctified followers. We forgive because of His mercy and love towards us. We forgive Ernie and love him with the love that the Holy Spirit has shed abroad in our hearts by faith.
David,
That is even more disturbing than what I heard.
Thank God who makes things EVIDENT for all to see.
Luke 8:17 “For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light.
18 “So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.”
1 Timothy 5:24 The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after.
25 Likewise also, deeds that are good are quite evident, and those which are otherwise cannot be concealed.
Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Ruth,
This is not the information I had told you I would get, but since David has written to you on the forum page, I thought I should write and let you know some things. I am still working on what I said I would be getting, but that will take some time yet, because of my time. Some of this is taking me away from other things I am needing to do, but I am searching out the information for myself as well as for you, or others that want some more information on things relating to the dreams.
Because of the length of what I have written this time, I have chosen to put it on the following website – http://martinfamilycenter.net/health_in_the_dreams.htm . Because of some of the material in my communication, I have thought it best to put it there rather than on this forum page. It’s not vulgar, but I do say some things that might be taken as not appropriate for this forum. David has been cautious about what he has said, and rightfully so in what he has said.
God bless.
Gary
Gary,
I appreciate your response, and yes, it was mentioned at the meeting that there is a health issue with bras. But since Satan was after souls and he is a skilled warrior, he would use this bit of truth to set his trap. The counsel that followed bras being a health issue proved this to be true. The fact that an angel from heaven told Candace these things, all being lies, shows that Ernie was playing into the hands of the devil. Satan was using Ernie’s lies to deceive him and whoever listened. His goal was to seperate the soul from God and then destroy the faith of his victim. “. . .whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish.” John 3:16. With your faith destroyed you will perish.
Satan is the father of lies, and on this fashion it shows clearly. The tops, camisoles, were to be worn tight or better said form fitting, and were to be revealing. Here is an email that includes correspondance from Candace that was sent out to one of the attendees. I removed the attendees name and addresses for privacy:
——————————————————————————–
RE: Bless His Holy Name!
——————————————————————————–
Ernie and Becky Knoll Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
To:
Cc:
Hello X and X:
Thanks for emailing. I’m so happy to hear that you got rid of the “chains” J
Praise God that you and others “get it”. Attached to this is the Dress for Today document. It shows that we have much to learn and unlearn. I know I shared that the type of shirt an individual wears depends on their body type. For my small frame I wear just a thin strap camisole (in the summertime). It is tight enough that it shows the form that I was created with and this is to His glory. But each will need to decide what is best for them.
Here is a excerpt from Candace on shirts. I think you will understand her humor as well as what she also has been shown. This is also exactly as she typed it. Her earthly education is not much but her heavenly education is great.
Let me know of any more questions you have. My prayers go with you as you and your family walk by faith.
Be blessed…Becky
i was also told to tell you something that i realy lkike and i was told that when we wear the white t shirts camisoles that this is to symboilize the righteousnes of Jesus and the smaller the shirt we ware is the amoiuint of faith we know to beeleive so the way it was explainde is the biger the shirt the smaller the faith we have and the smaller the shirt the more faith we have so i understand more than ever that a very thin small white shoirt is a like a small grain of mustard seed faith that we are waring the white robe of HIS righteousnes and when our sinful bodies show through it is showing that HE is covering us and the more sin that shows the more it proves in faith that HE is outr shield and our righteousness and i just love that and it makes me want to just tie white sting around my nipples but that wont work HA HA”
Notice Candace’s testimony on shirts; of course you know that this is Ernie, an unknowkingly puppet for Satan at this point for sure. “When our sinful bodies show through”? “. . . tie white string around my nipples . . .”? Again, this is not a real woman, but can you see the devil’s intention in this fictious character? And yet Ernie says that he was “inspired” to create Candace. Not a human on the face of the earth can deal safely with a fallen angel. You can’t tell lies on this level and Satan not be present; especially when God’s commandment keeping people are the coveted treasure. Imagine this falsehood being spread to all the world, that women are not to wear bras, this would be the bait because it’s a health issue, and that they are to wear form fitting camisoles instead that reveal their sinful bodies. The world church would be ridiculed, our cause severely impeded. I don’t think that God covered the nakedness of Eve with a see through lambskin.
As for telling the truth about this whole matter, I believe that every matter should be established upon two or three witnesses (Deut 19:15), and I have more than that to validate my testimony.
Ernie also told us a story about how they traveled through a hail storm in Colorado with God’s van and it came forth unscathed; not a single scratch. Some of us went out to see it and took photographs. Did this really happen? Or, was this another story fabricated to foster another day of contributions.
As a watchman upon the wall I must tell the truth, God expects me to. But it must not be to cause hurt; only to reveal error and pinpoint the adversary disguised as a friend of Jesus.
I believe that God allowed us all to be tested. Some of the dreams were just that, a test; others an outright lie, i.e the tribunal of God for Steve Wohlberg, Linda Kirk, and David Gates. The story is told of a woman praying for bread and her window was opened and a passer by who happened to be an unbeliever heard the prayer. He went to the store and bought the bread and secretly placed it at the womans door. When the woman discovered the bread she praised God. The man, concealed by a nearby hedge, sprang forth and said that he delivered the bread and not God. She replied that God used you to answer my prayer. Sometimes the Lord works that way, and we can see that in our lives and in the scriptures, i.e. when Joseph was placed in the well. I believe that God can take Satan’s best efforts and turn them into momentum for His cause.
Did our leaders come forth as they should when Ernie began to publish his dreams? Or, were they too highminded to even bother? Or, were they frightened by the memory of Anna Phillips and her dreams? What GC leader sat down with Ernie? Were they busy trying to figure out who was a memeber of the Great Commission Council?
Ellen White writes, “Our brethren should be willing to investigate in a candid way every point of controversy. If a brother is teaching error, those who are in responsible positions ought to know it; and if he is teaching truth, they ought to take their stand at his side. We should all know what is being taught among us; for if it is truth, we need it. We are all under obligation to God to know what He sends us. He has given directions by which we may test every doctrine,–”To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” [ISA. 8:20.] If the light presented meets this test, we are not to refuse to accept it because it does not agree with our ideas.” GW 300
Are we satifised with the truth that we hold so losely, truth that has not sanctified us because of our indolence?
Ellen White continues, “When God’s people are at ease, and satisfied with their present enlightenment, we may be sure that He will not favor them. It is His will that they should be ever moving forward, to receive the increased and ever-increasing light which is shining for them.
The present attitude of the church is not pleasing to God. There has come in a self-confidence that has led them to feel no necessity for more truth and greater light. We are living at a time when Satan is at work on the right hand and on the left, before and behind us; and yet as a people we are asleep. God wills that a voice shall be heard arousing His people to action. –”Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. V, pages 703-709.
Once the brethren heard that souls were being converted, and that a great truth was going forth they should have come forwarded as the priest did when John the Baptist was causing a big stir in the wilderness. Once investigated and the enemy or friend of Jesus was identified to be such, our leaders should have cried out. All leaders have trumpets that are suppose to be blown loudly when they see the enemy approaching.
But what did cause our leaders to raise their heads—the tithe statement made by the Herald? Why this, because money would leave their ranks and jeopardize their futures? Let’s face it, all of us were tested in one way or another.
What did we learn? That the scriptures are to be followed to every word. If it says, “Prove all things”, then obey the word and prove all things; don’t let anything escape the testing of that individual, the diet, the dress, the talk, the walk and certainly the doctrine. The scriptures teach that the “. . . Holy Spirit moved upon holy men as they spake.” We also learned that God requires all to test the spirits, from the least to the greatest, all must decide based on their own findings; not on another. Don’t remain watching the entertainment that Satan offers to the world, and be caught with the affairs of life about you as a heavy weight that that day of testing comes upon you like a thief; with your spiritual vision disabled you will fall into the ditch. Abide in Christ, stay there in Him; no connection with the world will fit you to go forth and meet the enemy at the gate.
With all that has happened know that the Lord GOD will use this for His glory. Ellen Whites states that you can do nothing against the truth, only for it.
God bless you all. Come quickly my Lord.
David
David, would you be willing to talk with me? Thank you,
Linda Kirk
linda7kirk@gmail.com
Gary,
I read your blog — thank you for the information.
RE: the health benefit you mentioned — this quote sums it up fairly well.
“Over 85 percent of the lymph fluid flowing from the breast drains to the armpit lymph nodes. Most of the rest drains to the nodes along the breast bone. Bras and other external tight clothing can impede flow. The nature of the bra, the tightness, and the length of time worn, will all influence the degree of blockage of lymphatic drainage. Thus, wearing a bra might contribute to the development of breast cancer as a result of cutting off lymphatic drainage, so that toxic chemicals are trapped in the breast. This idea has been popularized recently by Sydney Ross Singer, Ph.D., with the publication of his book Dressed to Kill: The Link between Bras and Breast Cancer by Avery Press. In this book he describes an epidemiologic study that he carried out which shows a strong link. This study is similar to the early studies that showed a relationship between smoking and lung cancer.
Women who wore bras more than 12 hours daily had a nineteen times greater chance of developing breast cancer than those who wore a bra less than 12 hours daily. Women who never wore bras seemed to have an even greater protection.
So, the take home message to women is to wear bras as little as possible and when wearing them try to choose one that is least constricting.”
Michael Schachter M.D., F.A.C.A.M. http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.asp?Id=533&xcntr=4
Ladies, we can continue to be modest and obtain some of the health benefits too.
Ruth,
I think what you have found out and have posted re: the problem with bra’s is good. I suppose women who are heavy or have large breasts may need some support. I certainly am not an authority in any sense of the word, but having talked with my wife about women of this size, or some who are smaller women with large breasts, there could be a need to have some support for the weight of the breast since, according to her, as I remember, weight is pulled from the back muscles, and the more weight, the more strain it would be on the back. If I’m wrong, you may need to correct me.
I am in the process of preparing some more information, some of which addresses other things relating to the dreams, and will be somewhat of a response to David’s post of the 23rd of August. David has a fairly good handle on some of this, but there are still some questions I have that are still unanswered. I’m also going to pose some of these questions to Ernie and Becky, especially Ernie. I’m hoping that I can keep this as simple as possible, but it does get a bit involved.
Gary